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Google picks KCK/KCMO for ultra fast fiber network 
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Valencia Place
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Post Re: KCMO to get Google Fiber too...
Great news.  I hope there's a follow-up campaign from the city, the Kauffman Foundation, etc., to try to attract tech start-ups and other companies that could use the bandwidth.

KCMax wrote:
KC Biz reporter tweets this will go beyond KCK and KCMO and details will follow.

http://twitter.com/#!/sstagemeyer/status/70546650774511616

I imagine there's a good chance it will be expanded to some of the rest of KCP&L's service area.


Tue May 17, 2011 11:31 pm
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Mark Twain Tower
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Post Re: KCMO to get Google Fiber too...
DST services many of the City's banks and financial institutions, and Cerner many of the City's hospitals, so I would assume those would be among the first to be hooked up.

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Wed May 18, 2011 12:02 am
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Post Re: KCMO to get Google Fiber too...
Yael: Google hype could give KC costly, inferior product

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Wed May 18, 2011 3:34 pm
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Post Re: KCMO to get Google Fiber too...


That's pretty silly. It isn't as if the fiber optics are going to be less awesome and transmitting light. The other infrastructure can be easily upgraded, and the jump on innovation this should give us in other areas means we have an opportunity to continue to push the leading edge. This column is really reaching.


Wed May 18, 2011 3:40 pm
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Broadway Square
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Post Re: KCMO to get Google Fiber too...
Have you ever sat in a restaurant and listened to a miserable, caustic, whining spouse sucking the everlasting life out of their mate?  And you think to yourself "thank God I'm not with someone like that".

That's the thought that has gone through my mind just about every time I have ever read Yael.


Wed May 18, 2011 3:41 pm
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Post Re: KCMO to get Google Fiber too...
Apparently their sysadmin broke something, because I'm getting a 500.

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Wed May 18, 2011 3:48 pm
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Broadway Square
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Post Re: KCMO to get Google Fiber too...
From the press releases and articles I have read, it sounds like Google will open up large areas to the service all at once, starting first in KCK and then quickly in KCMO, rather than the neighborhood by neighborhood approach we have seen with cable providers.  Since the deal was largely due to Google's collaboration with KCP&L, it sounds like this could ultimately be distributed outside of the KCMO limits.  Lines will be run above ground for the most part, preventing the need for digging and borrowing/sharing lines with other ISPs.  Google is not using this as a loss leader, so they will try to turn a profit or at the very least break even, but the buildout using existing infrastructure should make this pretty cheap to implement compared to what other ISPs did in the past. 

Yael obviously doesn't understand what Google is doing.  The service is dead simple.  Use KCP&L lines, string fiber cables, turn it on, let people use the Internet as they wish.  They have said in the past, they will try to make this competitive with existing Internet plans which I'm guessing could put the cost for the customer at anywhere from $30/month to $100/month.  To really gain traction, I think they have to keep it at or under $50.  Otherwise, not enough will adopt it for Google to call it a success.  On another positive note, one would expect TWC, Comcast, AT&T, etc., to basically offer free Internet in order to maintain customers for bundles of TV and phone.  KC is going to be the ideal test bed for a Silicon Valley startup (or big name like TWC) to offer cable channels over ISP legitimately for the first time ever.  KC could be the first US city to allow pay per channel cable over ISP.  As far as I know, there is no such thing as "inferior" fiber service to a residence, unless it is throttled, blocked, or frequently down.  Google will probably never have a more open service than it will initially, testing the KC area out to see where traffic flows. 


Wed May 18, 2011 3:58 pm
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Post Re: KCMO to get Google Fiber too...
bobbyhawks wrote:
From the press releases and articles I have read, it sounds like Google will open up large areas to the service all at once, starting first in KCK and then quickly in KCMO, rather than the neighborhood by neighborhood approach we have seen with cable providers.  Since the deal was largely due to Google's collaboration with KCP&L, it sounds like this could ultimately be distributed outside of the KCMO limits.  Lines will be run above ground for the most part, preventing the need for digging and borrowing/sharing lines with other ISPs.  Google is not using this as a loss leader, so they will try to turn a profit or at the very least break even, but the buildout using existing infrastructure should make this pretty cheap to implement compared to what other ISPs did in the past. 

Yael obviously doesn't understand what Google is doing.  The service is dead simple.  Use KCP&L lines, string fiber cables, turn it on, let people use the Internet as they wish.  They have said in the past, they will try to make this competitive with existing Internet plans which I'm guessing could put the cost for the customer at anywhere from $30/month to $100/month.  To really gain traction, I think they have to keep it at or under $50.  Otherwise, not enough will adopt it for Google to call it a success.  On another positive note, one would expect TWC, Comcast, AT&T, etc., to basically offer free Internet in order to maintain customers for bundles of TV and phone.  KC is going to be the ideal test bed for a Silicon Valley startup (or big name like TWC) to offer cable channels over ISP legitimately for the first time ever.  KC could be the first US city to allow pay per channel cable over ISP.  As far as I know, there is no such thing as "inferior" fiber service to a residence, unless it is throttled, blocked, or frequently down.  Google will probably never have a more open service than it will initially, testing the KC area out to see where traffic flows. 


Yes, it might be great, but it might also be terrible. We just don't know. &&&

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Wed May 18, 2011 4:06 pm
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Oak Tower
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Post Re: KCMO to get Google Fiber too...
bobbyhawks wrote:
Fone would expect TWC, Comcast, AT&T, etc., to basically offer free Internet in order to maintain customers for bundles of TV and phone.


I don't know about AT&T, but the cable operators are unlikely to give away broadband because their broadband profit margins are a lot higher than on video. Cable ops spend about $18-$20/month to deliver broadband to each customer, who's paying $40+. Video has a thin margin and, in some cases, is only break even. From what I've heard, voice pretty profitable.


Wed May 18, 2011 6:07 pm
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Broadway Square
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Post Re: KCMO to get Google Fiber too...
KC0KEK wrote:
I don't know about AT&T, but the cable operators are unlikely to give away broadband because their broadband profit margins are a lot higher than on video. Cable ops spend about $18-$20/month to deliver broadband to each customer, who's paying $40+. Video has a thin margin and, in some cases, is only break even. From what I've heard, voice pretty profitable.


Obviously, they would like to keep their margins in the ISP arena, but who in their right mind would pay $40 for 3 to 15 Mbps when they could get potentially around $50 or cheaper 1 Gbps.  The answer is not many, unless they are tied to a great bundle, where the value comes from the non-internet services.  Cable TV is the only thing those companies have, with live events and first run series, that they can lord over someone with a 1 Gbps cheap connection, and one would think that may even be in jeapordy within the next few years.  Unless people like TWC and Comcast give everyone 50 Mbps minimum as the basic service, few will want to pay them anything, even in a bundle, for 100x slower connection.  Just like AOL had to step down its margins on $40/month dial-up to compete with cable companies, the cable companies who largely operate without speed competition will have to slim down (drastically) margins on Internet services.  I expect to see lots of free upgrades in speed from local providers over the next year.  It will come off like they are doing you a favor, but really, they are just scared to death they will lose the whole market.


Wed May 18, 2011 8:07 pm
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Oak Tower
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Post Re: KCMO to get Google Fiber too...
bobbyhawks wrote:
who in their right mind would pay $40 for 3 to 15 Mbps when they could get potentially around $50 or cheaper 1 Gbps. 


It would have to be around $50 because every analyst survey I've seen says that most consumers are unwilling to pay more than $40-$45 for broadband even when it's a lot faster than what they currently have. That's why the take rates are so low for the 50 Mbps and 100 Mbps services. For example, in NYC, Time Warner has about a half-million broadband subs, and only about 2,000 have the 50 Mbps service.

It costs $750-$1,000 per sub to build a GPON network. So to get the subscriber price down to $50, Google and its partners would have to lock customers into contracts long enough to recoup the construction costs, or sell them enough additional services (e.g., video), or sell enough advertising, or some combination.


Wed May 18, 2011 8:29 pm
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Valencia Place
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Post Re: KCMO to get Google Fiber too...
Someone... I believe it is Time Warner Cable because I read in KC KS police reports that they had 10 thousand dollars worth of fiber optic cable stolen... is laying fiber cable all over KC KS right now. Along 18th street, Central Ave, 10th St, and Kansas Ave... they got the streets all torn up and there are huge piles of of big reels of yellow conduit/cable.

Is Time Warner getting ready to compete with Google????

Also I read that Kansas City, KS has a lot of "unlit" or "dark" fiber. Google will buy space on that existing fiber to connect it's network together.

I know that there is a major fiber line near where I live. It runs from I-635 down Metropolitan Ave to S 59th St then south to the county line. You know its there because ever so many feet there is a pole that sticks out of the ground.

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Wed May 18, 2011 8:38 pm
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Oak Tower
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Post Re: KCMO to get Google Fiber too...
It's one thing to lay fiber backbones. It's another, very expensive thing to extend laterals from those backbones out to each customer's home or office.


Wed May 18, 2011 8:44 pm
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Post Re: Google picks KCK for ultra fast fiber network
Are big reels of yellow conduit for fiber optic cable?

I'm noticing huge piles of these around KC, KS and I think they are owned by Time Warner. They have appeared along Central Ave in the weeks since the Google announcement.

Construction trenching has also been occurring along 18th St from Central to I-70 and also along 10th St from Central south to KS ave and Along KS ave....

My first thought was this was the beginning of the Google build out but then I read a police report that Time Warner had $10K worth of fiber optic cable stolen.

Is it possible that Time Warner Cable is making upgrades to its network in anticipation of competing with the new Google Fiber?

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Wed May 18, 2011 8:54 pm
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Post Re: Google picks KCK for ultra fast fiber network
justin8216 wrote:
Is it possible that Time Warner Cable is making upgrades to its network in anticipation of competing with the new Google Fiber?


If they don't want to hemmorage customers like Myspace circa 2007, then yes.  Dish/Directv + Google = scared ISP.  I think most or a lot of the Google buildout will be above ground, so not a ton of digging.


Wed May 18, 2011 9:05 pm
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Oak Tower
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Post Re: KCMO to get Google Fiber too...
KC0KEK wrote:
It would have to be around $50 because every analyst survey I've seen says that most consumers are unwilling to pay more than $40-$45 for broadband even when it's a lot faster than what they currently have. That's why the take rates are so low for the 50 Mbps and 100 Mbps services. For example, in NYC, Time Warner has about a half-million broadband subs, and only about 2,000 have the 50 Mbps service.

It costs $750-$1,000 per sub to build a GPON network. So to get the subscriber price down to $50, Google and its partners would have to lock customers into contracts long enough to recoup the construction costs, or sell them enough additional services (e.g., video), or sell enough advertising, or some combination.


yeah, google might be able to pull off $50/month for 1Gb.  the catch is that they'll likely be data mining the connection.  they'll make magnitudes more $ selling reports from the entire connection than on ad clicks. i'm sure google will be testing the limits of privacy with gnet in kc though - could see privacy groups opening an office in kc just to see what google is monitoring.  i personally don't mind if it's truly anonymous collection but many will have an issue with it.  if it turns bad, could always use an ssl proxy through someone else for normal browsing.

in the end, other ISPs are already doing this so will be inescapable.. google is just better than other ISPs at collecting, mining and has the channels setup to sell the data.  we'll have to rely on privacy groups to keep ISPs from delving into personal identification.

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Wed May 18, 2011 9:27 pm
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Broadway Square
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Post Re: KCMO to get Google Fiber too...
KC0KEK wrote:
It's one thing to lay fiber backbones. It's another, very expensive thing to extend laterals from those backbones out to each customer's home or office.


Good point.  Could they perhaps recoup some of this cost and avoid multi-year contract requirements by charging an installation fee?... like $100/customer.  I'd pay that.

KC0KEK wrote:
It would have to be around $50 because every analyst survey I've seen says that most consumers are unwilling to pay more than $40-$45 for broadband even when it's a lot faster than what they currently have. That's why the take rates are so low for the 50 Mbps and 100 Mbps services.


What is the average basic bundled cost of a 10 Mbps connection? $35/$40?  Aren't they asking you to pay $20 extra dollars a month for 5x better connection, and no increase in upload speed?  Even if Google charged that same $60, you would be paying $20 extra dollars for 100x better connection, and presumably, a much better upload speed.  The value add there is really not comperable to what ISPs currently offer with upgrades, and they want to lock you into multi-year contracts that also tie you into other services like TV and phone.  I realize that I consistently give Google too much credit as they get scarier and scarier, but if they pull of an actual, "don't be evil" plan, the sky is the limit for the benefit to the consumer.


Wed May 18, 2011 9:42 pm
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Post Re: KCMO to get Google Fiber too...
bobbyhawks wrote:
What is the average basic bundled cost of a 10 Mbps connection? $35/$40?  Aren't they asking you to pay $20 extra dollars a month for 5x better connection, and no increase in upload speed? 


I don't have any recent figures for averages, such as at the national level, but the amount varies widely based on promos, bundling discounts, etc.

Personally I wouldn't pay $60 for 1 Gbps simply because I have no need for that amount of speed. I work from home and upload and download 10 MB+ files several times a day, and my 20/2 connection is fast enough. Now if someone came to me with an over-the-top video service where I could subscribe to channels entirely a la carte, then I might be interested in 1 Gbps. But right now, I just have no need for 1 Gbps, regardless of the price. I've got to wonder how many other consumers and SOHO users feel likewise.


Wed May 18, 2011 9:56 pm
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Post Re: KCMO to get Google Fiber too...
I would imagine Google is willing to lose money on fiber service in KC. They've got what, $6B in cash right now? I don't think covering their expenses is nearly as important to them as charging a low enough price to ensure widespread adoption. I'm guessing that's why they've been cagey on pricing.

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Post Re: KCMO to get Google Fiber too...
AJoD wrote:
I would imagine Google is willing to lose money on fiber service in KC. They've got what, $6B in cash right now? I don't think covering their expenses is nearly as important to them as charging a low enough price to ensure widespread adoption. I'm guessing that's why they've been cagey on pricing.


At first it was thought Google was doing this as an R&D lab the size of a city and therefore would be an R&D expense not expected to pull profit.  But Google specifically said they are a business and are planning to make a profit on the KC rollout.  They'll make far more revenue from data mining the entire connection than from ad clicks.  With that model, they can probably sell the service for $50/month.

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