| Author |
Message |
|
slimwhitman
New York Life
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:29 pm Posts: 372
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
Imagine if every time they say "Memphis" in this video, it was replaced with "Kansas City", then I would say we are getting somewhere. Is Mayor Sky James talking about complete streets? http://www.midsouthcompletestreets.org/
|
| Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:08 pm |
|
 |
|
smh
Valencia Place
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:40 am Posts: 1618 Location: River Market
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
An email from Charles Marohn replying to the comment I left on his blog:  |  |  |  | Quote: I read your comment on the Strong Towns blog. I know people there interpreted my comments as condescending and rude. That's fine. I'll admit I didn't soft pedal my approach in an attempt to make friends. Even before I arrived, that was a very small minded conversation and, while I may have misinterpreted the person who said parking was the problem (did not realize that was a joke -- it fit with everything else being said), there was no misinterpreting the narrow-minded comments of the others.
I think things could have gone better if people had taken me up on my two challenges. Instead, everyone flipped out. It has left a bad taste in my mouth, for sure, and while I may have come across as condescending, I was not anywhere near in tone the level of many in that group.
My initial critique was (a) obvious and (b) mild. The reaction I have received from many corners of KC (not just that site) speaks to a deep level of insecurity that I have a hard time understanding. If the leaders and activists of a community are that hyper-sensitive to a mild critique and a challenge to defend their flippant statements, how are you ever going to look critically at yourself? That downtown is not a great place -- not by a long stretch. If KC is going to turn it around within a generation, you are going to need some really deep introspection, far beyond anything I have provided.
How is that going to happen?
-Chuck |  |  |  |  |
I have finally met an urbanist I cannot stand.
|
| Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:04 am |
|
 |
|
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 6:49 pm Posts: 25769 Location: Quality Hill
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
That guy isn't worth anybody's time with that attitude. Says a lot about somebody who attacks like that based on comments not even meant the way he tried to spin them.
|
| Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:21 am |
|
 |
|
chaglang
Valencia Place
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:44 pm Posts: 1605 Location: Squier Park, Kanscity
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
Frankly, it feels like we got trolled. By an urbanist. That's a first for me.
|
| Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:58 am |
|
 |
|
beautyfromashes
Broadway Square
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:04 pm Posts: 2572
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
This is a guy trying to badmouth the city and pump up his own superlative laced, nothing vision to win some consulting work. Best to be avoided and ignored.
|
| Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:14 pm |
|
 |
|
smh
Valencia Place
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:40 am Posts: 1618 Location: River Market
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
Chuck Marohn recently added a new post to his blog Strong Towns that I think makes a lot of excellent points and relatively succinctly states what most of us on this forum are trying to build in Kansas City. Told through the lens of trafficautomobile congestion: http://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2012 ... stion.html
|
| Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:52 pm |
|
 |
|
KCMax
Global Moderator
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 22161 Location: The basement of a Ross Dress for Less
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
Chuck returns to KC http://www.strongtowns.org/sid-tv/2013/ ... ience.htmlHe also explains why he's "picking" on KC. http://www.strongtowns.net/profiles/blo ... e=activity |  |  |  | Quote: The criticism from KC, however, wasn't from the blissfully unaware but from the should-know-better crowd. Those advocating for a rail line (seriously?), touting the great Power and Light District and generally lauding how great and walkable downtown KC is ripped into me on numerous local websites. My analysis was dismissed as being from an ignorant out of towner and my prescription for KC's woes was laughed at as "crazy". The more generous among them suggested that I "may have a point" but that I should understand that "they are trying" and I should try to build more bridges than just lob critiques. It was all very weird, as if I were the best man at their wedding and had brought up the family's pedophile uncle during my toast. Some things should not be spoken, Chuck.
So my return to KC prompted me to circle back to this dialog for two reasons.
First, I want them to get their heads out of their posteriors, stop pretending that their city is great, stop fantasizing about trains and big projects and start doing the little things. ...
Second, there are many, MANY, MANY American cities that suffer from similar delusions. If they look at Kansas City through the spotlight I am shining, they should see themselves glowing back. |  |  |  |  |
Oh.
|
| Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:07 pm |
|
 |
|
smh
Valencia Place
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:40 am Posts: 1618 Location: River Market
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
Eh, I just can't engage with Chuck. Smart guy, but his characterizations of our criticisms of him are just completely mistaken. We all know KC has plenty of issues, and we also know there are lots of people working very hard to correct them. Unfortunately in his writing he first lobs insults rather than actual critiques, and thus his critiques are overshadowed because the reader is already insulted. I guess the succinct way of putting it is that he talks down at us instead of across the table with us. Which is disappointing.
Kevin Klinkenberg OTOH, is a great example of someone who is constructive in his criticism.
|
| Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:20 pm |
|
 |
|
chaglang
Valencia Place
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:44 pm Posts: 1605 Location: Squier Park, Kanscity
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
Two ways that video would have been much more robust: 1. Walk DT with a local planner or urbanist. There were plenty of offers just among the people here. Nothing is going to explain away what he's seeing, but having a conversation about it would have been enlightening. And I bet that whoever he walked with would agree with 95% of what he had to say. 2. If it's so clear that we don't get it, throw out some practical solutions. Tell us what a block of 12th Street should look like. Klinkenberg's video of Westport Rd. is a great example of this. Maybe I'm an idiot, but I came away from that video not sure what he wants KC to do. Fewer lanes? More/less on-street parking?
|
| Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:47 pm |
|
 |
|
flyingember
Colonnade
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:54 pm Posts: 991
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
I got that he's saying we have great road capacity. That's true.
Obviously those empty streets aren't a draw for businesses or residents or else they wouldn't be so empty.
|
| Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:38 pm |
|
 |
|
chaglang
Valencia Place
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:44 pm Posts: 1605 Location: Squier Park, Kanscity
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
Ok, so he's saying that we have excess capacity? I'd agree with that. What's the solution? I was waiting for him to talk about his desired end state and it never came. Since in his estimation we all have our heads up our asses, he should have known to explain everything in detail. Nearly all of the buildings he showed in that video have businesses. The exceptions were the SW corner of 12th and B'more, and the SW corner of 13th and Main.
|
| Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:00 pm |
|
 |
|
mean
Administrator
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 3:00 pm Posts: 9450 Location: Historic Northeast
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
Don't feed the troll.
|
| Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:57 pm |
|
 |
|
beautyfromashes
Broadway Square
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:04 pm Posts: 2572
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
The guy says he is looking at downtown traffic at 4:30 on a Friday. Well, at just past the 3:00 mark the bank clock says its just after 3:30. This guy has no credibility.
|
| Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:08 pm |
|
 |
|
chaglang
Valencia Place
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:44 pm Posts: 1605 Location: Squier Park, Kanscity
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
That's funny, because I wondered the same thing when I saw him go past that clock. Do you have a screen cap?
|
| Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:10 pm |
|
 |
|
pash
Alameda Tower
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:47 am Posts: 1499
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
The clock reads 3:43. ... And his "rush hour" photo from early September was taken when it was dark out. Clearly the man is temporally challenged.
It's really too bad Chuck Marohn is such a clown, and such a defensive, insecure advocate for urbanism. I agree with most all of his criticisms (KC has no real traffic, I don't care what time that video was shot) and with many of his solutions (apparently he hasn't forgotten, however, that I called the idea of uncontrolled intersections "crazy"). Yet I now tend to roll my eyes at him. I don't imagine those disinclined to his view of things react much better.
|
| Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:42 pm |
|
 |
|
beautyfromashes
Broadway Square
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:04 pm Posts: 2572
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
So, why is he talking to us? Please tell me that someone isn't paying him to come here and I'd really be mad if my tax dollars were being spent to pay for his drinks and strippers. Best to ignore this gnat. Done.
|
| Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:50 pm |
|
 |
|
smh
Valencia Place
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:40 am Posts: 1618 Location: River Market
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
I figured he was at the smart growth conference last week and took the opportunity to bag on us some more.
|
| Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:13 am |
|
 |
|
flyingember
Colonnade
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:54 pm Posts: 991
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
interesting related piece about road use in Boston, which of course has a good transit system http://arstechnica.com/information-tech ... ams-start/sounds like having empty roads is quite the norm for any city, even at the busiest time of the day
|
| Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:20 am |
|
 |
|
chaglang
Valencia Place
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:44 pm Posts: 1605 Location: Squier Park, Kanscity
|
 Re: Strongtown: Suggestions for KC's downtown streets
Thanks for posting that. During this whole discussion I was thinking that there are huge swaths of the Financial District on Boston that have comparable traffic to DT KC. Nice that I wasn't imagining that.
|
| Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:20 am |
|
|