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phuqueue
Valencia Place
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:33 am Posts: 1806
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
"There's no call to build light rail in Manhattan" is one of the stupidest fucking things I've ever heard. Of course there's no call to build light rail through one of the densest transit networks in the world. There's no call to build a little streetcar from Rockefeller Center to the Metropolitan Museum of Art because New York already has its hands full building the $17 billion Second Avenue Subway.
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| Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:46 pm |
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DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:22 am Posts: 11763 Location: Crossroads
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
also, he describes walking in cities that have maintained extensive transit systems... enabling contiguous blocks of interesting things (density) that makes walking worthwhile. even our blocks of contiguous interest are devoid of foot traffic because people assume they need their cars to access everything because there is little transit. those areas are also surrounded by massive stretches of uninteresting surface parking, blank walls, and parking garages... none of which encourage people to meander from point A to B.
if you want people to walk in this town, give them a place where there's something to look at between point A and B. right now, that's westport road between central and mill street, and several stretches on the plaza. it's quite clear that being 100% car-based hasn't allowed that to happen since two two spots were constructed while we still had an expansive streetcar system.
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| Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:00 pm |
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DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:22 am Posts: 11763 Location: Crossroads
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
AND there were actually two serious proposals to build surface rail in NYC... streetcars in red hook, brooklyn, and on 42nd street. http://www.vision42.org/
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| Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:03 pm |
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IraGlacialis
Colonnade
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:02 am Posts: 842 Location: Bangkok
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
The above argument is just as ridiculous. I have never been to NY, but my experiences in Chicago have been very positive of the rail transit system's usefulness. Same has been true for friends who have visited NY. Not to mention that they did promote pedestrian movement. Also, besides the difference in density, the topography in KC is different enough from that of Manhattan to at least mentally cancel-out that distance idfference.
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| Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:11 am |
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mean
Administrator
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 3:00 pm Posts: 9467 Location: Historic Northeast
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
I'd like to see a cite on that. Every time I've been to NYC, the subways have been packed with everyone from tourists to commuters to buskers to urinating bums.
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| Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:46 am |
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chaglang
Valencia Place
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:44 pm Posts: 1619 Location: Squier Park, Kanscity
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
What an unbelievably mediocre argument. This guy runs a magazine?
One of my pet peeves is the "we're too spread out to connect with light rail" argument, which this guy makes. The underlying assumption - that all of the interesting things KC will ever have are already here - is pathetically myopic and provincial.
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| Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:04 am |
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phuqueue
Valencia Place
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:33 am Posts: 1806
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
You must have missed it, the cite was at the bottom of the page:
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| Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:19 pm |
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DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:22 am Posts: 11763 Location: Crossroads
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
the final total of streetcar ballot requests is now 555, per the 16th circuit court clerk. ballots mailed on june 19.
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| Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:37 pm |
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KCMax
Global Moderator
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 22196 Location: The basement of a Ross Dress for Less
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
LOL, you want a cite? This is a guy that wrote an entire book on the premise that Obama's book "The Audacity of Hope" was actually ghost-written by Bill Ayers, not because of any proof, but because of writing style.
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| Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:47 pm |
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mean
Administrator
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 3:00 pm Posts: 9467 Location: Historic Northeast
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Oh shit, that's that guy!? And people take him seriously...
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| Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:58 pm |
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chaglang
Valencia Place
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:44 pm Posts: 1619 Location: Squier Park, Kanscity
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
There was a profile of this guy in the Star a few years back and one of the Kempers raved about what an intellectual genius Cashill is. Talked about how Cashill just destroyed people in arguments. My guess is that only one of the people in the argument was using actual facts.
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| Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:00 am |
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DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:22 am Posts: 11763 Location: Crossroads
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
that probably would have been crosby, who has many of the same kooky leanings as cashill.
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| Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:10 am |
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KCMax
Global Moderator
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 22196 Location: The basement of a Ross Dress for Less
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
What is it about becoming rich that causes one to believe batshit crazy things?
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| Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:33 pm |
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Pork Chop
Western Auto Lofts
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:41 am Posts: 651
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
They can become out of touch with the reality that most of us live in.
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| Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:42 pm |
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phuqueue
Valencia Place
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:33 am Posts: 1806
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Don't make the mistake of assuming all of these people "became" rich. Rephrase it, "what is it about being born into wealth that causes one to believe batshit crazy things" and suddenly the answer appears self-evident.
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| Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:10 pm |
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DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:22 am Posts: 11763 Location: Crossroads
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
ballots mailed today. most who requested ballots should receive them tomorrow. yes/no question to form the streetcar TDD. ballot language required by state statute. ballot must be sealed, signed, notarized by **ANY** public notary, then mailed or hand-delivered to circuit court. ballots due july 31, court will reveal results by aug. 3.
meanwhile, governance discussions continue between city and property owners. assuming the TDD is formed, city and port authority will make appointments to that board so they can meet in early august.
city must decide by late august whether it will pursue a live election in november for the 2nd vote. if not, it will be another mail-in election.
not a peep on the TIGER grant.
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| Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:55 pm |
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KCPowercat
Power & Light
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 6:49 pm Posts: 25771 Location: Quality Hill
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
41 is reporting no tiger grant. Fml
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| Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:01 pm |
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DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:22 am Posts: 11763 Location: Crossroads
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
i predict a revised cost estimate once engineering is complete that negates the need for the TIGER grant. as the winning list indicates, you can always apply a second time and win.
keep in mind $25 million is being "held" for detroit while they get their shit together. we could easily snag that if they fail (again).
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| Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:12 pm |
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KC Sporting Life
Western Auto Lofts
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:13 am Posts: 640
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
How do we know we can easily snag that money? Did they give us any explanation for why our application for the grant was turned down, like they did for Detroit?
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| Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:18 pm |
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chingon
Penntower
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:47 am Posts: 2421
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 Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Anybody have a link to the list of winners?
This seems like terrible news, but maybe I'm just pessimistic.
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| Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:19 pm |
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