http://www.richblockspoorblocks.com/
Bring up Kansas and Median Income

This map shows more than anything how Overland Park is running a Munipal Ponzi Scheme on it's most well off residents

You can see how the median income drops by half in old Overland park compared to the newer areas.

Same could be said for many areas.

What's a ponzi scheme about rich and poor neighborhoods?

I'm assuming this is a serious question.

The city is funding itself through edge growth to make sure it has all the people with money in the city limits so it can fund the whole city.

It makes sense except that endless growth can't happen forever without consequences. Look at KC's huge sewer bill. OP is going to run into the same massive sewer overhaul at some point if just from wear and tear.

It added 8 square miles in 2008, conveniently the areas people are moving to today.

Yes. What city or area doesn't depend on such growth? I understand the concept, just not the idea of it being a ponzi scheme.

KC's huge sewer bill is not from just wear and tear. Much of it has to do with original design and construction.
Anyway, so it will face a huge bill in the future due to wear and tear. So will KC again at some point in the future. Besides, sewers in JoCo are not the responsibility of a municipality, the sewers are the responsibility of Johnson County Wastewater, a division of county government.

It is a ponzi scheme, but the victims aren't the newer residents, but the city itself. A better analogy would be the debt addicted who finances yesterdays debt with a new loan.

Thanks, that makes more sense to me.

The map doesn't show money leaving overland park, or old overland park, it shows that the southern/newer part of the city has a higher median income. i suppose one could argue that the city should do more to attract or integrate different median household incomes, but that's different from saying a static map of income shows an exodus of money from the city.

Absolutely right. KC-suburban style sprawl, even within the city limits, is an unsustainable Ponzi scheme that should be stopped.



South OP is next. Western Lenexa and southern Leawood are already the hot areas to move to. South OP houses are now creeping up on being 15-25 years old. New suburbanites want new houses. JoCo will have to continue to grow outwards to collect this new growth. Cities like OP will eventually be left behind.

my point is the map doesn't show money leaving anywhere. it shows the median income is higher in southern joco than in parts of northern joco, but no decrease over time.

also, leawood is landlocked.

True, it doesn't show anything over time. That would be helpful. But if the median income in the newest parts of a city is significantly higher than in the oldest parts, you can reasonably infer that people who have south OP income levels no longer prefer the older parts of OP.

One immutable law of KC real estate is that money flows toward the southwest. Always has.

You can blame JC Nichols for that--read "Kansas City and How it Grew" to see how he got that ball rolling with the Plaza, Sunset Hills and Mission Hills.

This. There's no evidence that money is leaving. If there were statistics showing a decreasing population combined with a decrease in home values or incomes, yeah, that might be evidence that money is leaving the area. Even in the lower median income areas of OP, the median income is still pretty high. If you want a "ponzi scheme", look at KCK's disparity between downtown and the western part of WyCo.

The census tract thing isn't completely reliable for telling where the "rich" areas are anyways. According to the map, part of Lee's Summit is "poor" because of all the John Knox people that obviously aren't bringing home $100k/yr in their retirement. Too lazy to figure out if a similar things is happening in a couple areas of OP, but the I'm assuming that there's a lot more retirees in north OP.

There wouldn't be a population decrease, because as the "money" left, they would presumably be replaced by people making less money.

And you can make a reasonable assumption that the highest earners are moving south, based on it being the newest part of OP and immediately being wealthier than northern OP. 10 years ago, that part of south OP doesn't exist and those people probably live further north. Unless there was a large group of wealthy people waiting until that part of the city was developed before buying a house in OP.

The moneyed residents have always moved. In KC history, the wealthier residents moved from Pearl Street in the River Market (near Second and Grand) to Quality Hill. Then they moved to Independence Avenue, and Gladstone Boulevard. Then they moved to the 24-31 streets along Troost. Believe it or not, a section of Troost used to be called Millionaires' Row. Then they moved to Coleman Highlands, Southmoreland, and Hyde Park. Then they moved south of the Country Club Plaza along Ward Parkway. Then they moved to Mission Hills and Leawood.

The Loose Brothers moved from their mansions on Independence Avenue to Armour Boulevard. Kirkland Armour moved from his mansion on Quality Hill to Armour Boulevard.

Mansions at Independence Avenue and Gladstone

http://kchistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/Mrs&CISOPTR=1283&CISOBOX=1&REC=19

Independence Avenue mansions

http://kchistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/Montgomery&CISOPTR=7868&CISOBOX=1&REC=6

Mansion at Independence Avenue and Prospect

http://kchistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/Montgomery&CISOPTR=2128&CISOBOX=1&REC=19

Troost Avenue mansions

http://kchistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/Montgomery&CISOPTR=7634&CISOBOX=1&REC=16

Loose Brothers' mansions on Independence Avenue

http://kchistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/19th&CISOPTR=305&CISOBOX=1&REC=5

Remember that the Kansas City Museum, Corinthian Hall, in the Old Northeast, once was home to a wealthy lumber baron, R.A. Long, and was then the largest private home in the metro region.

http://kchistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/Montgomery&CISOPTR=1212&CISOBOX=1&REC=7

Now some of the wealth is moving to Briarcliff West, Shoal Creek, and around The National near Parkville in the Northland.

In 80 years, houses in Mission Hills could be run-down and demolished. For all we know, at some point, the wealthy might move to the Northland en masse at some point.

Great stuff Fang, many thanks!

Don't forget some houses there have been demolished and replaced with more modern, bigger homes.

I've noticed quite a few Prairie Village homes are doing this too. They seem to be a similar style, so I wonder if its the same developer.

Still, its a small, small minority. Its just way more expensive to demolish and rebuild in Mission Hills, than to just build in an empty field on a Lenexa golf course.

Same thing happened in the Old Northeast. R. A. Long bought the parcel where Corinthian Hall now stands and it had two houses on it. He moved one to a new site on Norledge, and the other diagonally across the street, and then built his mansion.

http://kchistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/Mrs&CISOPTR=871&CISOBOX=1&REC=15