Urbanism, architecture, transit, etc.
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pash
Valencia Place
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:47 am Posts: 1502
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 Urbanism, architecture, transit, etc.
I often see interesting articles and videos on diverse urban topics that I'd like to share without creating a new thread for each one. Let's do that here. First off, an article in today's NYT: "Taking parking seriously, as public spaces": The article focuses on Eran Ben-Joseph's book about parking, Rethinking a Lot: The Design and Culture of Parking, which comes out in March. Yes, I think I will actually buy and read a book about parking. ...
Last edited by pash on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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| Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:03 pm |
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KCMax
Global Moderator
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 22183 Location: The basement of a Ross Dress for Less
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
Cool idea. I've been posting links on the Rag Twitter page, but I'd like some discussion of them as well. GUH!  I just got back from Metcalf South Mall. What a sad, empty lot that is. There are probably 2-300 spots there that are NEVER occupied. And there certainly isn't the kind of entrepreneurial experiments like the mall in the article - although you'd think there might be. Its a pretty busy area. I wonder if there is more JoCo could do with it. I'm fascinated by the Dutch planning philosophy of removing signs and markers. The book "Traffic" by Thomas Vanderbilt (which has some great stuff on the psychology of parking and traffic) has a great chapter devoted to Hans Monderman, who developed the movement. Anyway, good article.
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| Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:13 pm |
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coreyo
New York Life
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:55 pm Posts: 393 Location: Downtown KC
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
I really like some of his comments about architects considering parking as part of the architecture and starting to look getting rid of old-school zoning laws requiring parking. I wouldn't go so far as call that public spaces. I'd say more about getting out of the way for business and architects to actually think about their parking situation and choosing on their own behalf.
Btw, on a side note, I got an e-mail from work saying that with the next tenant (apparently taking up 4 floors) in Town Pavilion that they expect the Town Pavilion parking garage to be over capacity and to remember the other $5 DT parking lots near by: City Center, Library Lofts and a close by surface lot on Grand.
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| Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:57 pm |
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chaglang
Valencia Place
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:44 pm Posts: 1618 Location: Squier Park, Kanscity
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
It got me thinking about the recent food truck craze that's going on here. If you were a vacant/parking lot owner who put in planters to provide some shade and informal seating, and maybe some metered power access, you could easily turn your lot into a great gathering place.
I also loved the Pensacola Parking Syndrome. It's nice to have a term for something I've wondered about for a long time - the where the balance is in the zero sum game of downtown surface lot "creation".
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| Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:26 am |
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chaglang
Valencia Place
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:44 pm Posts: 1618 Location: Squier Park, Kanscity
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
It got me thinking about the recent food truck craze that's going on here. If you were a vacant/parking lot owner who put in planters to provide some shade and informal seating, and maybe some metered power access, you could easily turn your lot into a great gathering place.
I also loved the Pensacola Parking Syndrome. It's nice to have a term for something I've wondered about for a long time - the where the balance is in the zero sum game of downtown surface lot "creation".
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| Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:26 am |
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pash
Valencia Place
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:47 am Posts: 1502
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
Here's the passage in which Andres Duany coined the term, in his book Suburban Nation:  |  |  |  | Quote: Actually, there is a point at which a city can satisy its parking needs. This situation can be found in many small, older American cities and is almost always the result of the same history: at mid-century, with automobile ownership on the rise, a charming old downtown with a wonderful pedestrian realm finds itself in need of more parking spaces. It tears down a few historic buildings and replaces them with surface parking lots, making the downtown both easier to park in and less pleasant to walk through. As more people drive, it tears down a few more buildings, with the same result. Eventually, what remains of the old downtown becomes unpleasant enough to undermine the desire to visit, and the demand for parking is easily satisfied by the supply. This phenomenon could be called the Pensacola Parking Syndrome, in honor of one of its victims. |  |  |  |  |
Some guy on Flickr describes the affliction of Troy, NY by PPS:  |  |  |  | Quote: Troy, NY is a remarkably intact, 19th century city composed of handsome commercial blocks and beautiful rowhouses, but the diagram above [see the link for a pretty picture] shows that even in this dense city, parking spaces absolutely dominate the cityscape. There are many, many "missing teeth" in the urban fabric, and even though the city now rarely demolishes historic buildings for surface parking, there still is huge resistance towards infilling the parking lots with new buildings. There is instead the constant demand to convert as many empty lots into parking spaces as possible, and to provide ample parking facilities with all new buildings.
The tragedy behind this clamor is that most of the parking lots are empty most of the time. Many lots are oversized and far exceed the capacity of the institutions they serve. There is plenty of parking space in downtown that sits empty simply because it is "locked" into serving a particular institution and can't be used for other nearby institutions even when it is nearly empty.
Rather than suffering from a lack of parking, Troy suffers from a tremendous oversaturation of underutilized single-institution parking. (Note also that Troy is still amazingly dense by American standards - most American cities are hypersaturated with parking to an even greater extreme.) Troy could do better by removing as much parking space as possible from its downtown blocks (excluding on-street spaces, which should remain intact) and concentrating the parking in a few high-density garages on the edges of downtown. The downtown is very compact and easily walkable, so no infrastructure other than sidewalks would be necessary to connect the garages to the downtown. Rather than being locked into serving a specific institution (and remaining underutilized most of the time), the garages could be open to all institutions and could also be flexibly priced according to fluctuating supply and demand. |  |  |  |  |
It's even worse in KC. But anyway, that passage, and particularly the portion I bolded, point out that PPS is a " tragedy of the anti-commons"; that phrase was coined by Michael Heller, whose book on the subject I read recently. (The book is about the broad phenomenon of diffuse ownership leading to underuse of resources.) It's also clear that PPS is caused not just by car culture, but is just one of the many inefficiencies created by the "separation of uses" that Jane Jacobs warned against so many years ago. You create "central businesses districts" and zone commercial out of residential areas and you end up with everybody parking one place during business hours and everybody parking another place nights and weekends. You need twice as much parking, and half of it is always empty.
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| Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:14 am |
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KCMax
Global Moderator
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 22183 Location: The basement of a Ross Dress for Less
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
Bingo. PPS has also taught people that parking must be right at the door and that anything more than a block walk is a major hassle.
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| Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:16 pm |
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KCMax
Global Moderator
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 22183 Location: The basement of a Ross Dress for Less
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
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| Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:34 pm |
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pash
Valencia Place
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:47 am Posts: 1502
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
The full paper on which the Atlantic Cities and Access articles are based is here [PDF]. On the population needed to support local businesses: But that should surprise no one. The surrounding areas are heavily residential, so of course the residents of those areas will have to do their shopping in the more commercialized Riviera Village and Torrance Old Town. If you want to promote walking over car travel, this suggests to men that you want a more uniform distribution of residential units and businesses. The trick is that to achieve that, you must condense residential, not spread out businesses. In other words, I think the idea of "retrofitting the suburbs" for walkability is basically a non-starter. People are just too spread out not to drive. Yes, you can "urbanize" the suburbs by building more high-density housing and end up with more people walking. But the residents of the old, low-density housing stock will still be driving everywhere.
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| Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:08 pm |
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KCMax
Global Moderator
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 22183 Location: The basement of a Ross Dress for Less
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
 |  |  |  | pash wrote: The full paper on which the Atlantic Cities and Access articles are based is here [PDF]. On the population needed to support local businesses: But that should surprise no one. The surrounding areas are heavily residential, so of course the residents of those areas will have to do their shopping in the more commercialized Riviera Village and Torrance Old Town. If you want to promote walking over car travel, this suggests to men that you want a more uniform distribution of residential units and businesses. The trick is that to achieve that, you must condense residential, not spread out businesses. In other words, I think the idea of "retrofitting the suburbs" for walkability is basically a non-starter. People are just too spread out not to drive. Yes, you can "urbanize" the suburbs by building more high-density housing and end up with more people walking. But the residents of the old, low-density housing stock will still be driving everywhere. |  |  |  |  |
What do you think about an area like midtown KC where you have detached single family housing neighborhoods with corridors of more urban-style streets running through them?
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| Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:37 pm |
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pash
Valencia Place
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:47 am Posts: 1502
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
By the way—this has been posted before—there's a neat website called Walk Score that quantifies the number of businesses and attractions within walking distance of any address. (It ties into Yelp's API.) There is a neat feature that draws a heat map of scores over a city— here's KC's. Kansas City, Mo. overall comes in 43 out of the 50 largest American cities by average Walk Score. And this isn't just because KC has so much mostly empty land. The methodology: The north-sourth corridor from the downtown loop to the Plaza scores quite well, though.
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| Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:52 pm |
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pash
Valencia Place
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:47 am Posts: 1502
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
I like those neighborhoods a lot. They're great places to live. But if many neighborhoods are developed like that, you end up with an unwalkable city. The problem is that though it's pleasant to live in neighborhoods like those in Midtown, they make the neighborhoods beyond them unwalkable. Hyde Park, Roanoke, the West Plaza, etc. are walkable in the sense that you can comfortably walk from your house there to the shops and restaurants concentrated along 39th Street and in Westport and on the Plaza. You can walk from those neighborhoods to the amenities in adjacent neighborhoods. But they have next to no commercial amenities within their own boundaries. So if you live in a neighborhood yet farther from the center of activity, you have to walk through those "dead" residential neighborhoods to get to where you're going. That makes those more peripheral neighborhoods unwalkable. In other words, only the closest-in neighborhoods of that sort can be walkable. You can see this very clearly on the Walk Score heat map of KC, by the way. The Midtown neighborhoods are all greenish because they're close to the commercial core of the city. But they don't contribute to it, so the neighborhoods beyond them (farther from Main, basically) are orange and red. The residential surrounding the Main Street corridor is simply too low-density to engender its own amenities, so you end up with neighborhoods that are less walkable the farther you get from Main. Can you have single-family neighborhoods in an urban area without making everything else unwalkable? Yes, but I think they must either be quite dense (row houses, basically) or else they must be (a) very small in total area and (b) well isolated from one another. Otherwise they spread things out too much for the broader area to remain walkable. But it can be done. London, for example, has loads of high-density, single-family residential neighborhoods that are connected by "high streets" that are the retail and entertainment centers. That works, but it probably would not if the density were significantly lower or if the transit network were not so well developed. Then you'd have something more like Los Angeles. London's single-family residential neighborhoods mostly have 20,000–30,000 people per sq. mile. I think you probably need something close to that number if you want self-sustaining neighborhoods. By comparison, Roanoke, Coleman Heights, Volker, North Hyde Park, etc. have between about 5,000 and 6,500 people per sq. mile. South Hyde Park and whatever you call the area just east of Westport, as well as the West Plaza (which has a lot of apartments) and much of the Northeast are a bit denser, at about 8,000–9,000 people per sq. mile. Those neighborhoods are the densest in the city. The bulk of KC's single-family neighborhoods (Brookside, Waldo, and all the rest that were built in the '20s and '30s) have only about 3,500–5,000 people per square mile, and much less on the depopulated East Side. Truly dense urban areas are much more dense: most of the residential parts of Manhattan have 80,000–120,000 people per square mile, for example.
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| Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:01 am |
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chaglang
Valencia Place
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:44 pm Posts: 1618 Location: Squier Park, Kanscity
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
Even at 43, I feel like KC's ranking is slightly inflated by WalkScore's counting of QuickieMarts as grocery stores and home business (like someone selling Silpada out of their house) as shops. Incidentally, those are the closest two "shopping" options to my house.
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| Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:00 am |
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slimwhitman
New York Life
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:29 pm Posts: 372
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
My WalkScore in 80....and I live in O.P. 
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| Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:16 pm |
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chingon
Penntower
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:47 am Posts: 2421
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
But they do that everywhere. And there are a lot of bodega-style places in big cities that are less well-provisioned than he average QT.
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| Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:33 pm |
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FangKC
Mark Twain Tower
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 4:02 am Posts: 9514 Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
It's easier for someone in Manhattan, NYC, to get fruit and vegetables though than it is for someone living in many parts of the East Side. Most people in NYC don't buy those from chain grocery stores anyway, but the corner bodega. Most convenience stores don't carry them.
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| Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:57 am |
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pash
Valencia Place
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:47 am Posts: 1502
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
A lot of your neighbors sell Silpada out of their homes? 
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| Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:58 am |
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chaglang
Valencia Place
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:44 pm Posts: 1618 Location: Squier Park, Kanscity
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
Yeah, good point. In bigger cities the commercial density probably gives some redundancy that we don't have here in KC. I would trade the a QT for the local place at 39th and Troost in a heartbeat.
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| Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:38 am |
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chingon
Penntower
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:47 am Posts: 2421
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
I call bullshit. That's probably true among a pretty small demographic in a relatively small slice of Manhattan, but that is so patently false in most of the city (especially the boroughs and upper Manhattan), that there are large-scale public health initiatives to try to get fresh produce into bodegas. You might have got your produce there, and it might be common in lower Manhattan, but most bodegas have a very limitted supply of produce or even non-prepackaged goods.
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| Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:00 pm |
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earthling
Colonnade
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:27 pm Posts: 993
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 Re: Urbanism, architecture, etc.
Can't really trust Walkscore. Before all the downtown development, 12th/Main scored 91. A few years later.. after P&L, grocery, movie theatre, bowling, a bit more retail, etc, the Walkscore improved by only one point to 92. Westport area scores a 95.
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| Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:44 pm |
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