Cordish in news - 4th street live! ACLU & dress code

[chrizow]

i do assume that people not fitting the dress code will be largely minorities. why? why else would the dress code be created? bars and clubs have long had the "no hats, no jerseys" type of dress code. every single time it is a reaction to black or hispanic people showing up to the "white" club or bar. it happened at Tonic here in columbia, and it happened at Aqua, Kabal, and other spots in KC.

i also know that not all black people dress like that. give me some credit. but it's clear to me that Cordish has those that DO in mind here.

i know that white people wear that stuff too. i would also bet that they wouldn't be turned away at the door if they are. why? i've seen it happen 1000 times.

maybe the "whiny liberal" ACLU is right sometimes, eh?

i wouldn't be so sure that discrimination wouldn't occur, LG. if they are going to have security or police checking for the dress code, you can bet your life that enforcement will be pretty selective, based on the individual making the call.

i understand that BUSINESSES can create a dress code. what irks me is that an entire urban DISTRICT and NEIGHBORHOOD where people live is going to have a dress code. (making the streets "private" won't solve this issue for me either).

i guess i am in the minority here, but i say NO dress code for the district. if certain businesses want to have one, then fine. i dont agree with it, but it's the business person's right.

[chrizow]

is P+L going to be a "festival liquor district?"

if so, that would be awesome. they should close the streets down and make it a big drunken block party every thurs-sat.

if that is the case, have the bouncers check ID's at the entrances.

that'll weed out much of the young troublemakers anyway, with no need for a dress code.

[tat2kc]

I could't care less what someone wears on the street. I do, however, think it looks stupid as hell when one wears clothes several times too big, with the pants hanging off the ass and a ball cap worn sideways. I mean, its such a stereotypical look that the wearer has to be well aware of the "look" he or she is projecting. And then get upset because they are judged by how they look?

I especially love the arguement that you shouldn't judge people by what they wear. What planet are you from? Of course people judge you by what you wear on the street. Are the judgements accurate? No. Is it right? No. Does it happen? Duh! Study the concept of "drag". Its not just drag queens who wear drag. So do leathermen and women. So does anyone who wears a certian look, whether its corporate drag during the week, or gangbanger drag at night. Its all the same thing. You pick your clothing to project a certian image. Don't get all pissy when you are judged by the image you project.

I work in a very conservative field. I'm also inked on my arms and legs. I've got enough sense not to show up at a meeting with state budget people or legislators, or parents wearing shorts and a tank top that shows off my tats. It would give the wrong impression. I do the corporate drag thing when I have to. We all do the same thing. You pick your clothing to communicate things to others.

[chrizow]

the boardroom is a far cry from the streets of downtown KC.

i dont think hip hop kids should have to "clean up" to visit the squeaky clean new downtown project.

i suppose it's not even just hip hop kids, since skater kids dress like that too (sideways hats, huge assed pants, etc), as do rave kids and goths, etc.

i understand (and they certainly understand) that people will judge them. they want that. if people milling about want to say to themselves "wow, that kid looks like an idiot," then fine. but when a bouncer is at the entrance to a street surveying people's clothing, it makes my stomach turn. check ID's, fine. bars and restaurants can have a dress code. but not a STREET. and like others have said, what if i LIVE down there?

i just think a ban isn't worth it. it will send a preliminary message that is at BEST vaguely racist, that P+L isn't welcoming. it also tells suburbanites that P+L was worried about a gang problem, so they have a dress code. if suburbanites get a whiff of "gang," they stay home. thus the ban backfires.

i can't believe more people don't find it odd that CITY BLOCKS will have a dress code.

[tat2kc]

I think I'd wait to see if a ban was actually proposed first. They'd never be able to ban clothing on a public street. It sounds very odd to me that Cordish would actually police the streets and cite people for wearing particular clothing, as long as it was not indecent. If, however, the company leases the property, and charges an admission, then yea, they could. I doubt it would fly in court though. the Kansas City project is larger and it would be very difficult to enforce. I don't think any streets will be closed here. I could see them enforcing a code at the outdoor stage area, which would be private.

What do they do in Westport when the streets are blocked?

[LyRiCaL GanGsTa]

The street and curb are one thing.... Private property is another. The discussion should be distinguished. Somebody above said that we do judge by clothing but it isn't 'right'... I think that is stupid and completely hypocritical. Fear can be paralyzing but it can also save your life at the right time. We ALL judge by clothing and anyone that says it's wrong is stupid, ignorant and a LIAR. Why do you think we spend billions and billions on brands/labels? We constantly judge on appearance and clothing, it's not wrong or right, it's human nature. I'm sick of the pandering of liberals.

We all know who the trouble-makers are... wether they are ignorant, gangsta wannabes that just love to ruin everybody's party ( see Westport streets at 2am ) or drunk rednecks (see Westport at 2am ).

Why has Minneapolis, Denver, Seattle, etc. accomplished what KC cannot in their downtown? I think these cities have a more homogenous (sic) population then KC, that's what I think and I'm not afraid to say it. It doesn't make me racist, I know what racist means. I think KC is polarized by color.... and they will be as long as some blacks (and whites) maintain their dopey stereotypical 'gangsta-flava'. In the cities I mention above, there are are far less black populations and their downtowns are thriving. In Atlanta, they are more homogenous than KC because blacks are the majority there.

In an all out effort to be an "individual"... this trendy, fad-clinging society is really just playing follow-the-leader. I think this has something to do with why I find myself rolling up the windows in my car when some idiot drives next to me with windows down-stereo-as-loud-as-he-can-get-it... forcing me to listen to his nursery rhymes with a drum machine.

[QueSi2Opie]

Listen tk, I don't think people want to see the back of some dude's underwear while walkin' with their children in public!

You're right. Anything that is not appropriate for children to see in public is hearby BANNED!!!

Also, colored rags are gang affiliated 90% of the time. Like I said before, they should allow everything else from baggy clothes to white-trash sleeveless shirts. This isn't about race either, I see a ton of white suburban kids sportin' the hip-hop gangsta "clown" style.

Are you the fashion police now? Who are you or Cordish for that matter to tell people what they should wear? If there is gang violence in KC...let the KCPD handle that and keep out of it. Last time I checked there were no laws against wearing baggy clothes and rags out in public. The thing isn't even built yet and you guys are telling us who we should keep out so it doesn't end up like Bannister Mall. Get out ot the 'burbs and come back down to Earth.

Aye, tk, we're both goin' to be thick-headed because I'm not gonna agree with you on this issue. The Cordish development will transform several blocks of the city into private property. They have the right to turn away gangsta hip-hop clowns, trailer trash, and skater dorks. I'd personally ban anybody from my establishment if they dressed like a thug....it's their own fuckin' fault for projecting that image!

Seriously though, I doubt the code will be enforced during regular day-time hours. Bayou Place in Houston had a dress code enforcement sign posted, but there was no one standing around enforcing such rules at 5pm. I believe the dress code will be enforced during special events and possibly after hours. Cordish will allow alchohol in public, but in a plaza area...and they probably won't ban teenagers from the district until regular city curfew (like Beale Street or Bourbon Street) is in effect.

Don't get me goin' on the "BAN"wagon issue! I'd love it if we could be naked in public and say every 4 letter word on primetime, but unfortunately this nation has some of the worst parenting skills on the planet. We fail to teach our kids right from wrong, fact from fiction, and good from evil; we expect them to learn from television and what they see in the public arena. Then we try to BAN everything because we're too lazy to explain things to our children. I'm positive that kids won't be traumatized by seeing some moron with his boxer shorts hangin' out of his baggy britches, but hey, I don't wanna see some dude's ass crack unless I'm jerkin' off to a heterosexual porno!

BTW, everyone knows that I've always been part of the "fashion police" because of how I publicly complain about hating peeps that dress like HICKS! Which reminds me...you said,"get out of the 'burbs"?!?!?! YOU get the fuck out of the rural countryside you Lawrence hick!

[LyRiCaL GanGsTa]

Wow, I thought my post might be controversial.... I think I'm agreeing with Que for the first time ever!... except for that ass crack comment.

[QueSi2Opie]

I think I'm agreeing with Que for the first time ever!... except for that ass crack comment.

What? You actually wanna see some dude's ass crack? Oh well, each to his own.

[KCPowercat]

I'm really torn on this....I don't think clothing types should be banned at all. On the other hand I do not want the new district to become Westport on weekend summer nights...which it WILL become. (hell kids hang out in those surface lots right now at night). I'd like to know how 16th street in Denver handles it. I've been there on weekend nights and masses of young adults are gathered loitering around.....but I do see all clothing types there.


Chriz....on the tenant list....expect to see a lot of chain type things....that's what this district has always been aiming for. We have plenty of unique hip districts...this one is going to be more for mass appeal with some retail for local downtown residents....don't build it into something it's not....it may not be what we will flock to see but you know many will. It has been the missing piece in KC's retail in my opinion.

but that's a different subject.

[KCPowercat]

Here is Power Plant Live in Baltimore's dress code

No excessively baggy clothing
No sports jerseys. Jerseys allowed on game days only.
No shorts below the knee

[QueSi2Opie]

I'm really torn on this....I don't think clothing types should be banned at all. On the other hand I do not want the new district to become Westport on weekend summer nights...which it WILL become. (hell kids hang out in those surface lots right now at night). I'd like to know how 16th street in Denver handles it. I've been there on weekend nights and masses of young adults are gathered loitering around.....but I do see all clothing types there.

KC could start by transforming one of these dead malls into a youth entertainment complex w/ a mix of a dozen nightclubs for young adults, retail & restaurants popular with kids (Rave, etc.), a theater, an ice rink, basketball courts, batting cages, indoor soccer, mini-golf, go-carts, arcades, pool tables, skate park, etc. They can photo copy I.D.'s of youngsters (age 16 - 20) before they enter the mall (through metal detectors). Security would patrol both the mall and the parking lot. Anyone caught fighting, selling drugs, etc. would be banned, fined and jailed if necessary. An enclosed place like this would keep kids off the streets and it would comfort parents.

Chriz....on the tenant list....expect to see a lot of chain type things....that's what this district has always been aiming for. We have plenty of unique hip districts...this one is going to be more for mass appeal with some retail for local downtown residents....don't build it into something it's not....it may not be what we will flock to see but you know many will. It has been the missing piece in KC's retail in my opinion.
but that's a different subject.

Yeah, it will have some basic needs for downtown residents along with national chains (retail, restaurants, bars) that are new to the KC metro.

Here is Power Plant Live in Baltimore's dress code

No shorts below the knee

Well, I guess that eliminates me and most of my friends! Looks like I'll have to go out and buy me a pair of Daisey Dukes so my lovely knees are showing?

[LyRiCaL GanGsTa]

Looks like I'll have to go out and buy me a pair of Daisey Dukes so my lovely knees are showing?

yikes!

My only other question about this dress code is, are they going to allow mullets?

[tat2kc]

mullets are only allowed on the women.

I do understand that people are judged by what they wear. Try to explain how looks can affect how one is percieved to a blind kid, and you see how silly it can be. But it is life, and we all do it. Get over it. If you walk down the street, dressed like a gangsta wanna-be, grabbing your crotch, don't get all pissy if people look at you and seem to be intimidated. Same thing if you waddle down the street wearing a tiny, dirty ragged t-shirt that does not cover your enormous beer belly and a 15 year old ball cap thats so dirty you can't see the color anymore. I don't think you should ban clothing as a way to discriminate against racial or ethnic groups. But, damn, we've all seen people who obviously have no mirrors in their homes, or someone told them they looked good. Get some fashion sense people!!!

[aknowledgeableperson]

KC Live is to cater to two types of individuals - locals and conventioneers. Most conventioneers will be your conservative business types. Locals could be whatever. The conventioneers, and most locals, will go to where they feel safe. The developer will have a place where the people who spend the big bucks WILL FEEL SAFE.
The street and sidewalks may be public property but if the City provides the developer with a street closure permit then the developer could restrict the people on the streets and sidewalks, I guess like they can in Westport on the weekends.
There might be a minority (not meaning race) that might object that they can't wear their low riders and backward caps and so on, but if KC Live can't project a safe image it will be doomed to failure. And that is what it is all about - IMAGE. Whether it clothes, safety, or whatever.

[chrizow]

we should eliminate all traces of hip-hop fashion from these 8 city blocks. this will make it appear safe to conventioneers from Tucson who might feel uneasy at too much "diversity."

we should also urge Cordish to make sure the district appears to be the "place to be." as such, ladies should not be allowed into the district unless they are wearing full makeup and (preferably) revealing, expensive outifts. conventioneers LOVE that. also, for the guys, there should be no denim or athletic wear or hats allowed unless they are of the hipster/fashionista variety. no Wrangler jeans: only Seven, Paper, and Diesel!

while we're making these 8 city blocks appear safe and hip, let's go ahead and ban kids from the district as well. kids are loud, messy, and a big turn-off to folks out looking to have a good time. it's SO hard to mack on the honeys if some brat is crying at the next table!

Cordish might also think about banning people over 45 from entering P+L Live. there isn't anything WRONG with older folks wanting to have a good time, but no one wants to party with some old geezers! plus, if we let old people in, they'll want to bring their insulin needles and oxygen machines into the district. what a party foul!

Cordish is on the right track by having a dress code. i hope they consider my other suggestions as well.

[nota]

You guys are funny. Check out Zona Rosa's posted dress code sometime.